Kay Smith & Should a Church Have a “Women’s Ministry”?

Kay Smith, the wife of pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa, passed away last week. While Chuck was well known for his radio ministry, books, and leadership – Kay played a big role in what God did through Calvary Chapel and in the church as a whole in the late 20th and early 21st centuries.

For example, it was Kay who had a heart for the hippies and would go and pray for them, broken-hearted over these lost youths filling the beaches and streets of Southern California in the 60’s, and urging Chuck to reach out to them.

Furthermore, Kay’s women’s ministry, Joyful Life, was very large and influential, and played a big role in popularizing “women’s ministry” and a certain type of women’s Bible study that is now considered common in many churches.

This week, Calvary Chapel published an article and a podcast featuring my wife, Rosemary, who is a member of the Women’s Task Team for Calvary Global Network.

You can listen to the podcast here, and I’ve copied the article below:

Should a Church Have a Women's Ministry? When She Leads

Today, on When She Leads, we are discussing the question: should a church have a women's ministry? Women's ministries come in all shapes and sizes and we'll discuss all the facets and how it can be effective and healthy. When She Leads is a podcast for women in ministry hosted by Brenda Leavenworth, Jenn Benham, Jody Ponce, Rosemary Cady, and Kelly Bell. Reference article by Rosemary Cady. Email us at whensheleadspodcast@gmail.com Follow us on Instagram at @whensheleads

Source: Is Women’s Ministry Necessary? – calvarychapel.com

There is a growing controversy today with churches assessing whether or not to have a women’s ministry. Is it mandated in scripture, always beneficial, or not necessary at all? These are questions church leaders are asking. A large church in our town dropped their women’s ministry to promote community groups instead. I have friends whose churches only have an occasional women’s ministry event, and we have women who join our church because their old church did not offer a women’s ministry.

Women’s ministry can look different in each church. So first, let’s define it. The word “ministry” means “spiritual service.” Therefore, in a church, a women’s ministry would be where women go for spiritual, emotional, and social needs.

WHAT DOES SCRIPTURE SAY?

The Bible does not mandate that churches have a women’s ministry; scripture never explicitly introduces the idea. And while it does describe principles for ministry, the Bible stops short of giving us methods to accomplish it. This gives us the freedom to minister in ways that are effective for our time and culture.

It’s true; one cannot reasonably argue that scripture mandates we have a women’s ministry. However, I think we can conclude that women ought to be engaged in ministering to other women. Titus chapter 2 tells older women to “train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God” (Titus 2:4-5 NIV). Paul charged Titus to equip the older women in his church so that they might be ready to teach the younger women. The list of what to teach younger women regards their character and matters of the home. With this in mind, we look for the best way for women to learn God’s heart for these things by teaching them scripture and how to apply it to their lives. Furthermore, Ephesians 4:11-13 says that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are given to the church “to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up…in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature” (NIV). One integral way to bring about this maturity of faith is to teach women the Bible (cf. Romans 10:17).

There is no one model for how to minister to women, but many possibilities. It is imperative that a church show they care for women, which can occur in a variety of ways, but the key is spiritual health. From thriving Bible studies with hundreds of people to small prayer groups and everything in between, the women will grow in their faith if they are taught the Bible well.

BENEFITS

Women express that they are encouraged in their faith from the fellowship they experience in a women’s ministry, finding the strength to go on in life despite the trials, realizing they do not walk this journey alone. 

Other benefits include:

· A safe space to share struggles and prayer requests, uniquely as a woman.

· Develop meaningful friendships.

· Accountability.

• Spiritual growth.

• Other relationships in their lives are blessed by their maturing.

· Opportunities to serve and use spiritual gifts.

Women have shared private matters and gained wisdom from others in women’s groups that they never would’ve with men present.

DIFFICULTIES

A basic difficulty is simply that some women feel anxious gathering with groups of women. Even seeing the words “women’s fellowship” strikes fear in their hearts! A simple group introduction or invitation to pray out loud can send someone out the door, never to return. These are women I’ve met at my church. One woman at our church in Hungary was skeptical about coming, saying, “What, are you going to teach me how to wear a dress?” Ministry leaders can help such women if they realize that they come through the doors with fears, anxieties, and horrible past experiences. Women with similar proclivities will come to your meetings, wondering whether they can trust those around them this time.

Another difficulty arises when a women’s ministry becomes a church within a church. Suppose women can attend women’s ministry activities without ever attending church services. In that case, it could be a red flag to the ministry leader that the ministry has created a church of their own. Such an ascription of authority to the women leaders may usurp authority from the pastors of the church.

Those leading must be motivated by love, having a heart for women, and displaying a good character, not self-serving or self-promoting. Skills can be taught; a heart to serve has to develop from within. It has been said that “everything rises or falls on great leadership,” so having the right women in place is essential.

PUSH-BACK

What if a Lead Pastor is not interested in having a Women’s Ministry? Prayer would be the best place to start in this situation, and possibly a meeting with the pastor to hear his heart on the matter and share yours. The Women’s Ministry must follow the Lead Pastor’s vision for the church and help serve the needs of the women within it.

What if the women’s ministry leaders are gossips, slanderers, spiritually immature, or are running a ministry where power and position are more valuable than understanding and obeying scripture? Sometimes, a pastor’s best course is to shut down an unhealthy ministry and re-launch it with a healthy vision and leaders to match. To establish a healthy ministry, leaders must be mature in doctrine, character, service to the women, and submission to their pastors and elders.

IN CONCLUSION

Although scripture doesn’t mandate Women’s ministry, it is beneficial if teaching the Bible is foundational and is done with mature leadership and healthy guidelines. The benefits reaped are creating a community where spiritual growth flourishes, training takes place, spiritual gifts receive room for use, and the community provides support and encouragement in a loving environment with hearts oriented towards God.

Look for the next steps in our post on how to start a Women’s Ministry!

JOIN THE CONVERSATION

Our most recent episode of “When She Leads,” a podcast for women in ministry, is a companion episode to this article. Listen in as our team discusses whether or not churches must have Women’s Ministries. Each month, we gather around the table to consider the complexities and realities of leading as a woman. 

What do you think? If you have a topic in mind, email us at: whensheleadspodcast@gmail.com. You can also stay in touch by following us on Instagram @whensheleads

Will Suicide Send You to Hell?

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 says:

Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.

This text has been used, particularly by the Roman Catholic Church to say that if a person commits suicide, they go directly to Hell – no passing Go, no collecting $200.

“Mortal Sins” and “Venial Sins”

Using these verses as justification, the Roman Catholic Church labels suicide a “mortal sin,” for which no atonement can be made, as opposed to “venial sins” which a person may be cleansed of through paying for them via suffering in purgatory.

First of all, the entire idea of mortal and venial sins goes contrary to the clear teaching of Scripture, which states that there is only one unforgivable sin, which is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (click here for an explanation of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit). Furthermore, it is only Jesus who atones for our sins, we cannot atone for any of our sins, and to claim that we can “pay” for our own sins through our sufferings is to negate and minimize the work of Jesus on the cross, and say that Jesus suffered and died in vain.

The key passage used by the Roman Catholic Church to justify this belief in mortal vs. venial sins is 1 John 5:16-17. I have written about those verses and what they mean here: What is the “Sin Unto Death,” and Why Should We Not Pray for It?

“You” and “Y’all”

In 1 Corinthians 3:16-17, Paul uses the plural form of “you” – in other words, he is saying: “All y’all (together) are the temple of God.”

What’s important to remember about this passage, is that Paul the Apostle is writing to the Corinthian church about their church. Some in the church were harming and tearing apart the church with their divisive attitudes and actions, and Paul is giving them a stern warning that if anyone destroys the temple of God (the Church which He loves), God will take that personally and not let is slide.

Later in 1 Corinthians, in chapter 6, Paul once again speaks of the Temple of God in relation to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but there he does so in regard to the individual believer. This passage in 1 Corinthians 3, however, is not written to or about the individual believer, but to the church about the church. So the point of the passage is not about suicide at all, but it is a warning to those who would harm and tear apart the church with their words and actions.

When Christians Were Killing Themselves

Until the Edict of Milan, AKA the Edict of Tolleration was issued in 313 AD, Christianity’s status in the Roman Empire was that of religio illicita, an “illicit” or illegal religion (as opposed to Judaism, which held the status of religio licita)During this time, Christians throughout the Roman Empire experienced waves of persecution, usually dependent on the attitudes of local authorities, although there were times when persecution was the official policy of the entire empire – such as during the reigns of Nero and Diocletian. Christians also faced persecution outside the Roman Empire.

During this period, many Christians were martyred, and martyrs were highly regarded and respected as those who had been willing to pay the ultimate price for their faith. In fact, martyrdom was so highly regarded, that people began to seek it out and desire it, as a way of expressing their devotion to Jesus. Ignatius of Antioch, for example, wrote about his desire to die as a martyr.

But some people took it even further. Jerome writes about a young woman named Belsilla who flagellated herself so much that she died from her self-imposed injuries. Another woman, Agathonike, upon witnessing the execution of a bishop by burning, also threw herself onto the fire, declaring “this is the meal that has been prepared for me.” She died in the flames, even though she had not been arrested nor charged. There are other accounts of Christians volunteering to be martyred even though they were not even being sought by the authorities. [1]

The Donatists, who considered themselves particularly hard core and dedicated (and looked down on those they considered less-committed, even to the point of questioning their salvation), greatly desired to show their devotion by being martyred. Some Donatists even went to the point of simply killing themselves to show how spiritual they were, i.e. how much they were not attached to this life and how much they desired to depart this world and be with Christ.

The Response of the Church

Seeking martyrdom and committing suicide became such a big issue with the Donatists in particular that it threatened the credibility, and even the existence of the church in their area of North Africa.

Judaism had always considered suicide to be sinful, whereas in pagan Roman culture it was considered an acceptable way to exit this life, and was practiced mostly by the wealthy, in part because slaves were not allowed to commit suicide since their lives did not belong to them, but rather to their masters.

It was Augustine of Hippo, a native of North Africa himself, who took up the challenge of addressing this issue and clarifying Christian thinking on this subject. In his book ‘The City of God’, Augustine considered what the Bible has to say about suicide and weighed various arguments for and against suicide. His conclusion was that suicide is always wrong as it is a violation of the sixth commandment (“Thou shall not murder”), and is never justified even in extreme circumstances. This became the official position of the church. [2]

And yet…

Just because 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 isn’t talking about suicide, it must be noted that suicide is clearly a sin and is never the answer.

Help is available for those who are struggling. You can contact me directly here, or call the U.S. National Suicide Prevention Hotline if you need someone to talk to immediately: 1-800-273-8255.

Video

In this week’s Sermon Extra, Mike and I discussed this topic, as it came up in our current series: 1 Corinthians: Grace & Truth at White Fields Church.

Hermeneutics: How Do We Correctly Interpret What the Bible Says?

This week’s episode of the Theology for the People podcast is a discussion I had with pastors Benjamin Morrison and Craig Babcock on the topic of hermeneutics and Biblical interpretation.

Hermeneutics is the method by which we interpret communication, particularly texts. Legal hermeneutics, for example, is the study of how laws, or the constitution for example, are to be understood and put into practice.

Biblical hermeneutics is all about how to correctly interpret the Bible, so that we can be doers of the Word, not hearers only.

The reason hermeneutics is worth considering is because different people, reading the same Bible, can come to differing conclusions about what it means. The reason that happens is an issue of theological method (see: Theological Method: Sources of Theology and Why People Arrive at Different Conclusions About Matters of Faith & the Bible) and hermeneutics.

It must be said that not all hermeneutics are equally valid. Some hermeneutics are better than others. Sometimes we even intentionally use a hermeneutics in order to properly interpret something, as we do with “Christ-centered hermeneutics” – in which we intentionally read all of Scripture as pointing to Jesus, which we do because Jesus himself told us that this was the proper way to read and interpret the Old Testament Scriptures (see Luke 24:44-48).

Other examples of good hermeneutics would be “biblical hermeneutics,” in which read the Bible understanding all of the Bible to be the inspired Word of God, meaning that each individual part of the Bible should be understood in light of what the rest of the Bible says. We might intentionally choose to read the gospels through a Jewish lens, seeking to put ourselves sin their shoes in order to understand the things that happened or were said.

Oftentimes, however, our hermeneutics are not intentional, and we may not be aware of them, and they do impact how we interpret and understand what the Bible says. How then can we become aware of the hermeneutics we’re unintentionally using so that we can determine if they are good or not?

In this episode we discuss this and other questions surrounding the topic of hermeneutics. You can listen here or in the embedded player below.

Hermeneutics: How Do We Correctly Interpret What the Bible Says? – with Benjamin Morrison & Craig Babcock Theology for the People

In this episode Nick Cady and special co-host Craig Babcock speak with Benjamin Morrison, lead pastor of Calvary Chapel Svitlovodsk, Ukraine and coordinator for City to City Ukraine, about the topic of hermeneutics: the interpretation of texts, particularly the Bible. Hermeneutics and biblical interpretation is the focus of Ben's masters studies at London School of Theology, Nick's alma mater.  What is hermeneutics, and why is it important? Can't we just read the Bible without having to worry about interpretation? As Ben shows us, everyone who reads the Bible has a hermeneutics and we are all interpreters, the question is: are you a good and faithful interpreter of the biblical text? If, as Ben points out, not all hermeneutics are equally good, then how can we determine which ones are better than others and how do we identify our own hermeneutics in order to examine whether they are good or not? We discuss these questions in this episode.

A Theology of Music: Discussion with Jon Markey and Michael Payne

Jon Markey and Michael Payne are accomplished musicians, songwriters, and producers, and in the latest episode of the Theology for the People podcast, I sat down with them to talk about the theology of music.

Michael is the Worship Pastor at White Fields Community Church in Longmont, Colorado. Prior to coming to Longmont, he spent 21 years as a worship leader and missionary in Hungary, and prior to that he served in the US Marine Corps.

Jon is a pastor and missionary in Ternopil, Ukraine. He moved to Kiev, Ukraine with his family in the 1990’s, when he was 5 years old, and earned a masters degree from the Ukrainian National Tchaikovsky Academy of Music.

Jon has been a guest on the podcast before, in fact his episode is the most-listened to episode on the podcast to date: If “It’s All Gonna Burn” Then What’s the Point? – How the Resurrection Gives Meaning to Work & Art

We recently had the pleasure of having Jon and his family visit Longmont and lead worship at our church, and while he was here, I got to sit down with him and Mike to discuss what the Bible has to say about music: its purpose, uses, and significance – including the “song of creation,” and how it serves to counteract pagan origin narratives, as well as Jubal: the first human musician, mentioned in Genesis 4, as well as other practical discussions which have modern application.

Check out Jon’s ministry: Room for More music on YouTube and his church: Calvary Chapel Ternopil (Ukraine)

Check out Michael on Spotify: Michael Payne and you can watch him on the White Fields Community Church YouTube page.

The book mentioned in this episode is Scribbling in the Sand: Christ and Creativity by Michael Card

A Theology of Music: with Jon Markey & Michael Payne Theology for the People

Michael Payne and Jon Markey are accomplished musicians, songwriters, and producers, and in this episode they talk with Nick about the theology of music. Listen in to this discussion of what the Bible has to say about music: its purpose, uses, and significance – including the "song of creation," Jubal, and practical discussions for today. Check out Jon's ministry: Room for More music on YouTube and his church: Calvary Chapel Ternopil (Ukraine) Check out Michael on Spotify: Michael Payne and you can watch him on the White Fields Community Church YouTube page. The book mentioned in this episode is Scribbling in the Sand: Christ and Creativity by Michael Card Visit the Theology for the People blog.

Contextualization and Engagement in God’s Global Mission: a Conversation with Benjamin Morrison

Benjamin Morrison

Recently we have had the pleasure of getting to spend some time with some of our missionary friends from Ukraine, who have visited our church here in Colorado.

This past Sunday I had the opportunity to sit down with pastor Benjamin Morrison from Svitlovodsk, Ukraine to talk about his life and ministry. Ben is the pastor of Calvary Chapel Svitlovodsk, Ukraine, as well as the coordinator for City to City Ukraine and is part of the leadership of City to City Europe.

This turned out to be a great conversation in which we talked about how Ben came to be a missionary in Ukraine, what it’s like doing ministry in a post-communist context, and what “contextualization” means and how it works out in practice. We finished the conversation by sharing some practical advice for those who are seeking God’s leading and direction for how they can get involved in God’s global mission.

You can watch the video below, or listen to the episode on the White Fields Church podcast.

The Offense of the Cross: Cicero, the Early Christians, and Us

Boulder County & the Flatirons

The symbol of the cross is universally recognized today as the symbol of Christianity; for many in the Western world it is familiar and welcome. However, in the ancient world, in the first century AD, when this symbol was first used by early Christians, it was downright scandalous.

Paul the Apostle refers to the message of the cross as foolishness to the Greeks, a stumbling block to the Jews, and an offense to all. (1 Corinthians 1:22-23, Galatians 5:11)

The reason is because, for people in the ancient world, the cross was a terrible instrument of torture and execution. 

The thing that made crucifixion so terrible is that it didn’t kill you right away; it was designed to make a person suffer as much as possible, for as long as possible. And for this reason, crucifixion was reserved for only the very worst kinds of criminals.

Because of how terrible crucifixion was, the Romans did not allow their own citizens to be killed by crucifixion, no matter how dastardly their crimes; only slaves and those without rights were allowed to be crucified, since it was exceedingly inhumane. 

Cicero, the Roman statesman and philosopher said that crucifixion was so horrible, that the word “cross” should never be mentioned in polite society.

Let the very word ‘cross,’ be far removed from not only the bodies of Roman citizens, but even from their thoughts, their eyes, and their ears.

Cicero, 106-43BC, Pro Rabirio Postump 16

For the Jewish people in particular — to be crucified on a cross was considered a fate worse than death, because according to the Jewish Scriptures, anyone who was killed by being hanged upon a tree was considered “accursed”. (Deuteronomy 21:22-23)

And so, just imagine if you told someone back then that you were a follower of Jesus — a man who had been crucified… That person would have thought: “Whoa… Even if he was innocent, that’s probably something you should keep to yourself! That’s not something you want to go around advertising, because: that’s humiliating!”

But: here’s what’s interesting: for the early Christians, the fact that Jesus had been killed upon a cross was not something they tried to hide. Instead, the symbol of the cross became the main symbol they used to identify themselves – which is surprising, because the cross was generally consider to be the ultimate symbol of humiliation and defeat.

Furthermore, the message that the early Christians embraced and wanted to share with the world was what they called, “the message of the cross,” and “the good news of Christ, and him crucified.”

Paul the Apostle knew that the message of the cross was difficult for many people to accept. For the Jews, the idea of a crucified Messiah was a stumbling block. For Greeks, the idea that you could be saved through the death of an executed Jew seemed ridiculous. The idea that God would come to Earth and allow himself to be beaten, mocked, rejected and crucified, seemed completely unreasonable. They couldn’t wrap their heads around it. The Greek gods made humans serve them; they didn’t serve people – and they would never sacrifice themselves to save guilty people. 

Just as the message of the cross ran contrary to popular thinking back then, the message of the cross also runs contrary to popular thinking today.

The message of the Cross requires you to admit that you have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and that you are powerless to save yourself. This is why Paul talks about “the offense of the cross” (Galatians 5:11)

The message of the cross offends our sensibilities and our pride by telling us that we are sinners who need a Savior, and that we cannot save ourselves. In order to receive this salvation, you have to humble yourself before God.

Another part of the offense of the Cross is that the message of the gospel is exceedingly simple. Many people in Corinth seemed to believe that in order to “find God,” you had to be really smart, or exceedingly “good.” And yet, God chose to bring salvation to the world in a way that was so simple that even  even a child could understand it, and in a way that it was available to people who had lived immoral lives. 

Another part of the “offense of the cross” is that God says that His reason for saving you was not because you are better than other people. Salvation is simply an act of God’s grace: completely undeserved and totally unearned. You can’t take credit for it. The message of the cross leaves no room for pride or arrogance.

And when you really embrace the message of the cross, on the one hand it forces you to be incredibly humble, but on the other hand it fills you with an incredible sense of confidence – because the message of the Cross is that God loves you, and He has acted to redeem you, and if you have put your faith in what Jesus did for you, then God has sealed you and made you His own: He has adopted you as His Child, and placed His Spirit inside of you — and therefore you can be incredibly confident, knowing that you have nothing to fear in life or in death because God has promised that He will cause all things to work together for your ultimate good and for His ultimate glory.

For more on the message of the cross, see this sermon titled, “The Message of the Cross & the Power of God”

The Theology of Glory vs. the Theology of the Cross

In our current series at White Fields called Grace & Truth, we are studying through the book of 1 Corinthians.

This past Sunday, we studied the second half of chapter 1, in which Paul talks about “the message of the cross.” In doing so, Paul makes clear between 1:17 and 1:18 that the message of the cross is the gospel, and the gospel is the message of the cross. This message is “the power of God” for all who believe; precisely the same thing Paul says about the gospel in Romans 1:16. In other words, the gospel (the central message of Christianity) is the message of the cross.

Martin Luther wrote about the difference between a “theology of glory” and the “theology of the cross.” In this week’s Sermon Extra, I explain some of this historical context for Luther’s differentiation between the theology of glory and the theology of the cross, as well as how we can recognize theologies of glory in our modern times.

You can also listen to the podcast of this episode here:

Sermon Extra: Is the Theology of the Cross at Odds with the Theology of Glory? White Fields Community Church | A Christian Church in Longmont, Colorado

In this week's sermon extra, Pastors Nick Cady and Michael Payne discuss Martin Luther's description of Theology of Glory vs the Theology of the Cross and how it works out in modern thinking, as well as the way to be happy.  — Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/whitefieldschurch/support

You can watch the entire message from this past Sunday, “The Message of the Cross & the Power of God” (1 Corinthians 1:17-31), here:

Theological Method: Sources of Theology and Why People Arrive at Different Conclusions About Matters of Faith & the Bible

In the latest episode of the Theology for the People podcast, Mike and I discuss the topic of “theological method,” which was a big part of my Masters study in Integrative Theology.

Integrative theology weaves together historical, biblical, systematic, and other approaches to doing theology in order to take a holistic approach, and the result is an integrated theological method.

Here’s the thing: everyone uses a method for doing theology, whether they recognize it or not. Furthermore, the reason why different people and groups arrive at different conclusions is because they are using different theological methods.

In this episode, I explain the 5 commonly recognized “sources of theology,” and answer the question of how to examine your own theological method.

Listen in the embedded player below, or by clicking this link: Theological Method: Sources of Theology and Why People Arrive at Different Conclusions About Matters of Faith and the Bible

Theological Method: Sources of Theology and Why People Arrive at Different Conclusions About Matters of Faith and the Bible Theology for the People

In this episode, Nick and Mike discuss the topic of "theological method", which involves the study of how people arrive at theological conclusions based on how they use the "sources of theology" in relation to each other. We discuss the 5 commonly recognized sources of theology, explain different theological methods that exist, and how they relate to interpreting the Bible in light of our ever-changing world. Check out the Theology for the People blog site at nickcady.org

Will God Remove the Holy Spirit from a Person Because of Disobedience?

Click this image to listen to the podcast version of this article

Recently at White Fields, we did a 5-week study on the person and work of the Holy Spirit, called “The Spirit Filled Life” (click here to view that series).

One of the questions that is sometimes asked about the Holy Spirit, is whether God will ever remove the Holy Spirit from a person because of disobedience or sinful actions.

Certainly there are verses which talk about God removing the Holy Spirit from people, such as Psalm 51:11, where King David prays, “Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me.” David prayed this in the wake of his sin with Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11), so that brings up the question: Are there times when God removes the Holy Spirit from someone if they do something really bad?

Furthermore, in 1 Samuel 16, is says that the Spirit of the Lord departed from King Saul, and in the Book of Judges, it says that the Spirit of the Lord departed from Samson.

So, does this mean that God will REMOVE his Spirit from YOU, if you live in a bad way? If so, that would be a pretty big problem, because Romans 8:9 says “Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.”

Understanding the Three Relationships the Holy Spirit has with different groups of people

In order to answer this question and understand what it meant for David, Saul, and Samson – and what it means for us today, we have to first understand the 3 different relationships that the Bible tells us the Holy Spirit has with different groups of people.

Relationship 1: “WITH” All People

In John 14:17, Jesus told his disciples that the Holy Spirit had been with them up until that point.

Jesus then he told them that the work of the Spirit in the world is that He brings about conviction in people’s hearts and minds about 3 things: Sin, Righteousness, and Judgment (John 16:8)

In other words, the Holy Spirit is at work in the world in every country, with all people, and he is whispering in their ears and speaking to their hearts about the fact that 1) They are sinners (they have fallen short of God’s perfect standard), and 2) God is righteous, so therefore 3) There is coming a day of judgment when they will have to stand before that righteous God and give account for their lives.

The purpose of this conviction is not to just make people feel bad about themselves; the purpose is to draw them to Jesus by bringing them to a realization of why they need a savior, so they will embrace Jesus and what He has done in order to save them.

Relationship 2: “IN” those who have been redeemed by Jesus

Jesus told his disciples in John 14:17The Holy Spirit has been WITH YOU up until this point — but soon, the Holy Spirit will also be IN YOU.

This indwelling of the Holy Spirit is something that was prophesied by the Old Testament prophets Ezekiel and Jeremiah, that one day God was going to put His Spirit within His people (Ezekiel 36:27), in order to transform them from the inside out.  

For people in the Old Testament, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit was always a future event, but after Jesus had died and resurrected, we read in John 20:22 that Jesus met with his disciples and he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” It was at this moment, that the disciples received the Holy Spirit within them, and it was at this moment that they were “born again.” (See also: “What does it mean to be “Born Again”?)

What it comes down to is this: Only those who have put their faith in Jesus have the Holy Spirit within them, and every person who has put their faith in Jesus has the Holy Spirit dwelling with them.

The Bible tells us that when you put your faith in Jesus, God puts his seal on you and gives you His Spirit in as a guarantee (2 Corinthians 1:23). Furthermore, the regenerating and indwelling Spirit is called “the Spirit of Adoption” (Romans 8:15) It’s His guarantee that you belong to Him, and you are His.

The indwelling Spirit sanctifies, leads, guides, strengthens, and transforms from within.   

Relationship 3: “UPON” Some people at different times, to empower them to do what God has called them to do

Remember how in John 20 Jesus breathed on his disciples and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit”? Well, right after that, Jesus told his disciples to stay in Jerusalem and wait until the Holy Spirit came upon them. (Luke 24 & Acts 1:4)

But… if they just RECEIVED the Holy Spirit, then why did Jesus tell them to wait for the Holy Spirit?

Because: this is speaking about two different relationships with the Holy Spirit!

When Jesus breathed upon them, they received the Spirit IN them (and they were born again) — but then they were to wait in Jerusalem for the Holy Spirit to come UPON them:  to EMPOWER THEM to carry out the mission Jesus had given them.

That’s why Jesus His disciples in Acts 1:8, “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come UPON you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” 

Throughout the Old Testament, before people could have the Holy Spirit WITHIN them — we read that the Holy Spirit would come UPON people, to empower them to do things God had called them to do. For example, it says that the Spirit of the Lord came upon Gideon! (Judges 6:34 NKJV) We’re also told that the Holy Spirit came UPON Samson, and UPON David, and UPON Elisha, and others — to EMPOWER them to do what God had called them to do.

So, Jesus was promising his disciples (and us) — that the Holy Spirit will also come upon us, to empower us to carry out the callings He has placed upon our lives.

Un-Adopting? Un-Sealing?

Remember: in the Old Testament, the Spirit was WITH people (to bring conviction) and the Holy Spirit was UPON people (to empower them), but at that point that Spirit was not yet WITHIN people. So when we read in the Old Testament about God “removing” his Spirit, it’s not in the sense of a person who had the Holy Spirit dwelling within them, rather it’s in the sense of God removing the empowering work of the Holy Spirit from those people.

But for a person who has been sealed by the Holy Spirit indwelling them, we never read of God removing His Spirit from someone in that sense. The indwelling Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Adoption. God does not un-adopt us when we make mistakes and mess up, rather: he disciplines us like a loving Father (see Hebrews 12).

If He has SEALED you, as a guarantee of your salvation, that’s exactly what it is: He has placed his Spirit within you as a guarantee that He will see you through and bring to completion the good work that He has begun in you.

If you are His child, He won’t give up on you – and that’s really good news!

Further Study

For more on the 3 Relationships with the Holy Spirit, see this study: The Promised Helper

For more on the question of God removing His Spirit, see this study: The Work of the Holy Spirit in the Life of a Believer

Charismatic Christianity & the Bible: A Discussion with Wayne Taylor

In this week’s episode of the Theology for the People Podcast, I sat down with Pastor Wayne Taylor from Calvary Fellowship in Seattle, Washington.

Wayne has a long history as a leader in the Calvary Chapel movement. He founded Calvary Fellowship in Seattle and served there as lead pastor for 42 years. Under Wayne’s leadership, 55 churches were planted, both in the Pacific Northwest and abroad.

Wayne recently spoke at White Fields Church. That message, in which he reads a limerick he wrote about me(!), can be found here: Ephesians 2:10 – God’s Poem’s at Work.

In this episode, Pastor Wayne and I discuss Charismatic Christianity: where the word “charismatic” comes from, what it means, arguments for and against charismatic practices, as well as John MacArthur, theological method, Calvary Chapel, and our own personal experiences and biases.

You can listen to the episode in the embedded player below, or by clicking this link: Wayne Taylor: Charismatic Christianity & the Bible

Wayne Taylor: Charismatic Christianity & the Bible Theology for the People

Pastor Wayne Taylor has a long history as a leader in the Calvary Chapel movement; he founded Calvary Fellowship in Seattle, Washington, where he served as lead pastor for 42 years. Under his leadership, 55 churches were planted out of Calvary Fellowship, both in the Pacific Northwest and abroad. Wayne now serves on the executive leadership team of Calvary Global Network. In this week's episode, Wayne and I discuss what it means to be "charismatic." We discuss the origin of the word, arguments for and against charismatic practices, as well as John MacArthur, theological method, Calvary Chapel, and our own personal experiences and biases. Follow Pastor Wayne on Facebook, and check out the Theology for the People blog. The sermon series from White Fields Church on the Holy Spirit can be found here: The Spirit-Filled Life.