On this week’s episode of the Theology for the People podcast, I speak with Michael Payne, worship pastor at White Fields Community Church, about Jesus’ ascension into Heaven.
Is the ascension simply something that happened, which we acknowledge, or did it actually accomplish something which could not have happened otherwise? How did the early Christians and the Church Fathers understand the ascension? What difference should the ascension make for our lives today?
In 2021, I asked Mike to teach on the Ascension, as part of our Eastertide series, “The Risen Life,” in which we looked at the appearances of Jesus in the Gospels after His resurrection. As Mike studied and prepared for that teaching, he found that the ascension really deserves more attention than it generally gets in most churches today.
In this episode, I speak with Michael about his discoveries, and he explains what the church has lost by not focusing enough on Jesus ascension, and he explains why Jesus’ ascension matters for the gospel and for us.
If you find this episode interesting or helpful, please share it with others and leave a rating and review on your podcast app, as that helps other people discover this podcast and its content.
Does the Ascension Deserve More Attention? – Why Does Jesus' Ascension Matter for the Gospel and for Us? –
Theology for the People
In this episode, Nick Cady and Michael Payne discuss Jesus' ascension into Heaven and why it matters for the gospel and for us.
Is the ascension simply something that happened, which we acknowledge, or did it actually accomplish something which could not have happened otherwise? How did the early Christians and the Church Fathers understand the ascension? What difference should the ascension make for our lives today?
If you find this episode interesting or helpful, please share it with others and leave a rating and review on your podcast app, as that helps other people discover this podcast and its content.
Make sure to visit the Theology for the People blog at nickcady.org
I was reading in John, and during Jesus’s discussion with Nicodemus, Jesus makes a statement that gave me pause, “No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man” (John 3:13)
Immediately I thought, “Wait, what about Elijah, or potentially Enoch?” They may not have descended in the same way as Jesus, or had a special nature as he did, but they ascended physically and yet seem to be ignored in this exclusive statement.
Great observation! Here are some important things to consider, which can bring clarity to this statement from Jesus:
Which Heaven is Jesus Referring To?
In ancient thinking, the word “heaven” was used in three ways (and it often used in these same three ways in our modern vernacular as well).
The “first” heaven = the sky, or the atmosphere, i.e. the place where birds and planes fly.
The “second” heaven = outer space, or the stratosphere: the place beyond Earth’s atmosphere, where stars and other planets are located.
The “third” heaven = the abstract use of the word, which designates not a geographical location, but the spiritual plane in which God and other invisible spirits dwell.
Paul the Apostle speaks of being caught up to the third heaven, in what was either a vision or perhaps even a near-death experience, in 2 Corinthians 12:2. Paul also speaks of the “heavenly places” in Ephesians as the place where Jesus is seated with the Father.
And yet, we know can surmise from different passages in the Bible, such as Luke 16 and others, that those who died in faith prior to the death and resurrection of Jesus did not go to “heaven” in the sense of the immediate presence of God, rather they went to Sheol, the dwelling place of the dead, where they awaited either the completion of their redemption or the final judgment of God.
In this case, it would seem that when 2 Kings 2:11 says “And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven,” it means that his body was caught up into the sky, not that his soul was taken to the immediate presence of God.
This would make sense in light of the rest of the text in 2 Kings, in which the “sons of the prophets” who witnessed this take place insist that they go and recover the body of Elijah that was picked up in this whirlwind. With Elijah and Enoch, though their souls were taken from this Earth, they would have gone to “Abraham’s bosom” (the part of Sheol reserved for those who died in faith – see article linked above).
Jesus’ point in John 3:13 is that Nicodemus should listen to what he has to say about Heaven since no human person has ever gone to heaven, yet he (Jesus) is the only person who has come from Heaven to Earth, and is therefore uniquely qualified to give accurate insight and explanation into Heavenly realities.
“Ascended” versus “Taken Up”
Another possible explanation is that when Jesus says that he is the first who will “ascend” into Heaven, he is correct in the sense that he will ascend by his own power and volition, whereas Enoch and Elijah were “taken up” by God, not by their own power or will.
Hopefully these explanations helped. If you see anything I missed, please leave a comment – and keep on studying God’s Word and asking questions as you go!
Theology for the People 